I need to share this
30 06 2008It’s a comment, left on my old blog - today. Respond if you’d like; or not - I can’t. It’s such a painfully ignorant rant that it leaves me speechless. I’ll probably delete this entry in a day or two - I didn’t publish it as a comment. I simply need to share it.
Nikki writes:
In a society where we inject people with poison to punish them, why shouldn’t we spank our children? A calmly administered swat on the butt that leaves no mark but stings a bit is not abuse (and contrary to the popular belief, the Pearls do not advocate spanking with PVC pipe–it is flexible tubing, 1/4″ around, that has a similar effect and substance to a thin twig of a young tree, which used to be called a switch when your grandmother took it to your father’s butt). What IS child abuse is to permanently alter and damage our children’s minds and bodies with dangerous drugs (ritalin acts in a very similar manner to cocaine on the brain). These drugs are designed to do cause the same outcome that spankings are: develop children who calmly and cheerfully obey the rules. Spankings work, administered calmly, and with a clear explanation and love. Drugs don’t–they have penetrated the school system as entertainment (ADD drugs are trafficked like baseball cards were when we were kids), and they are a gateway to substance abuse when the kids are teens and young adults. What’s more, we as a society are so afraid to teach our children that DISOBEDIENCE IS PAINFUL. Well, the unfortunate reality is that children who don’t learn this at home from the people who love them most in this world will undoubtedly be dealt a more cruelly painful lesson from the world. It is painful to break the rules, it hurts to be disrespectful, and bad behavior has no positive rewards in the real world. Why leave a child to figure that out later? Oh, right, that’s easiest. If we as parents don’t have to do the discipline, we’ll have an excuse for their stupidity (the darn teacher’s can’t control them, they’re all turning to crime because of the media–all bunk!), and there will be an excuse to raise taxes (we need more money for more police and better schools, so let’s raise taxes!)…
Spanking is for the purpose of learning: to be obedient, to submit to authority, to respect rules and boundaries. Spankings are not administered when the child is being annoying, but when the child is being defiant. And defiance cannot be reasoned with. It just grows. And that’s why children call social services on their parents when their parents take away the car keys. That’s why principals of high schools are beaten up for giving out detentions. And that’s why it is popular to flaunt your gun in elementary school. And it’s ultimately why we have the electric chair: capital crimes are all acts of the ultimate defiance, disrespect, and disobedience.
If a child is learning to be cheerfully obedient, to follow the rules, and to think before acting, that is NOT abuse. It is actually the only way to assure that a child will grow up with lots of friends, lots of praise, lots of rewards, and lots of success.
Finally, I wonder how many of you have children, how many children you all have, and how many of them cheerfully and willingly do the following:
1. Go to bed, happily, every night, when asked once, with NO fuss.
2. Eat all their food, every vegetable, every bite, without complaining, cheerfully and with gratitude for the meal.
3. Ask politely for things, every time, and when they get NO for an answer, accept it gracefully and respectfully, no whining.
4. Begin helping around the house at age 2, vacuuming, making beds, clearing the dinnertable, taking out trash, and picking up their toys–and by 5 are doing it without being asked, without needing much help, without complaining, and cheerfully and joyfully.
THAT is the joy of raising a properly trained child. My children are fun, funny, friendly, well adjusted, get along with everyone, enjoy company of adults and children, speak clearly and articulately, read by age 3, write by age 4, and are the envy of the other parents in our neighborhood. And when I say they do these things consistently, I mean it. I love them. I enjoy them. I train them with an eye on their future, on being responsible for NOT raising them so that they end up being someone else’s problem, least of all the problem of the people in law enforcement.
Spankings hurt much less than the consequences for crime. And children with a sense of pride in their behavior, with a work ethic that earns them praise and compliments, and with an attitude of thanksgiving and service–these are children with TRUE self esteem, who recognize their TRUE value to their community and their family. These children grow up happy, healthy, successful and valued by others and by themselves. And the Constitution gives me the right to raise my children how I see fit. And if they don’t feel abused, and if they are happy and helpful, if they love me and feel loved by me, who are YOU to tell me how to run my family?
Oy.
Ow. I can see why you can’t respond to that, Doc — I can’t, either. Except to say that a child who does everything you ask the first time you ask, never ever protesting or even looking anything but cheerful, is a child who has learned to stifle all their emotions: a child who has learned they cannot trust their parents enough to show them what’s really going on in their minds and hearts. I wish every person in a position of authority over a child could understand that. It pains my heart to know that so many don’t.
HAHAH! I didn’t have to beat my kids with a pvc tubing to get them to “obey”. I’ve got two very well rounded and obiedent children and I didn’t have to beat them! Nikki, my kids do and did all that you listed (and more) and I still didn’t have to beat them.
Child abuser–you should be shot on sight for defending the Pearls and using their methods to raise your children.
Poor kids. And I wish people would actually read the Constitution. It does not give you right to beat your kid into mindless submission. I really feel so very sorry for your children.
toni
“That’s why principals of high schools are beaten up for giving out detentions. And that’s why it is popular to flaunt your gun in elementary school.”
I would submit that it is exactly these kids who have been spanked at home, and probably far worse to be this screwed up!
Wow, I’m honestly scared that my kids will have to live in the same world as yours. I hope they find the loving support they need to heal before having children of their own.
I will happily respond to the question about how many of you/how many kids. I have 5 kids who range in age from 21 to 6. I did spank my kids when I was young and, like the author of the above, didn’t understand that there was another way to raise kids with a conscience. By the time my eldest was 5, I had stopped spanking but still indulged myself in the occasional swat. I’m not proud of it, but it’s true. The reason for my lack of pride is that the swat made ME feel better, it didn’t do anything for my children but hurt them–physically a little and psychically a lot.
My 21 year old is coming home tomorrow from a 6 week study abroad program. He called and emailed consistently the whole time he was gone. People want to elect him President. He is beautiful, charming, ridiculously intelligent, a great singer-musician and HE HAS NEVER COMMITTED A CRIME! Well, maybe he speeds…I can say similar things about all of my kids from my 19yo daughter to my 6yo daughter.
It has been my overwhelming experience with children who are spanked that as soon as mommy isn’t looking, they act like demons. The immense sense of external control exercised on them only works as long as the threat is visible. Once the threat/spanker, is out of sight these kids hit, strangle, kick, beat, etc, etc other children. I have experienced over and over as a result of having lived for many years in suburban neighborhood about 4 miles from CBN (The Christian Broadcasting Network) and thereby having a lot of fundamentalist Christian neighbors. Some of these were great people. Some of them were crazy. Most of them spanked their children and their kids were, ALL of them, crazy away from home. I even saw it with my own kids and stopped in time for them to turn out okay. Well, 4 of them so far, the 6 yo is looking pretty good.
Given the chance to spend time with a group of children who come from spanking-vs-nonspanking homes, I’ll choose the 2nd group every time. They are FAR better behaved, do not participate in the baiting and disobedience and taunting of others that spanked children do and they always, IMO, have much bigger toolboxes for dealing with conflict than kids with external movtivation for self-discipline.
Please feel free to read more about my own disgust with me for ever spanking and for some suggestions on how to discipline w/o it:
http://tinaessert.blogspot.com/2008/06/no-greater-joy-no-joy-at-all.html
i love how they equate no spanking with no discipline. Shows they do not understand discipline at ALL.
I mean, there’s only a short hop from that logic to Ron smacking me around because I’m not a good enough wife.
(NOTE for the non-sarcastic: my husband has NEVER laid a finger on me in anger. DUH.)
And a handy Canadian law because I was explaining it to someone else. Abuse & how much you can spank up here is actually defined as no more then FIVE swats with your hand - no other object - and nothing that will leave a mark that doesn’t fade in a short time.
Anything more than that is legally abusive in Canada.
The bulleted list of how a proper child behaves gives me chills. My kids aren’t stepford robots, I’m not raising them to blindly obey under threat of violence. My job is to teach them to be kind, responsible and thinking adults.
People are so twisted.
My father never did succeed in spanking any love or respect into me. Sure, I learned early on that I either jumped when he said jump or I got spanked, but that never made me a respectful person. It didn’t keep me from the drug problem that was the ’90’s for me. If anything it served to push me farther away, and the second I felt I had an option I got the hell far away from home.
Mid thirties and I still don’t quite know how I feel about my father. There’s a certain wariness, almost fear when I’m around him. That’s what he spanked into me, a grudging almost respect and fear, but love and respect? nope.
“And if they don’t feel abused, and if they are happy and helpful, if they love me and feel loved by me, who are YOU to tell me how to…”
train my show dogs?
Of course I don’t hit my dogs either.
I live on a cul-de-sac and most of the kids in the area come by to play sports. It isn’t hard to pick out the kids that are treated kindly and respectfully by their parents. They usually treat others the same way. The kids that are physically and mentally controlled by their parents are more violent and demanding. They expect the other kids to obey them and many have very bad tempers.
I’ve even discussed this with a very religious grandfather that lives near by. He spanked his children but he says he wouldn’t if he had it to do again. My parents say the same thing. They can see the difference between my children, who aren’t spanked, and their other grandchildren that are.
As for that ridiculous bullet list, those kids sound just like the rag dolls I use to play with when I was a kid.
I wish “nikki” had read more entries about the Pearls.
I wish nikki could meet my parents (never hit and never hit their kids), my aunts, uncles, cousins, siblings, and children - I come from a long line of non hitting family. I think we’re all “a joy” to be around. None of us are criminals. Sure, many of us are liberals and question authority, but I don’t see that as a behavior problem.
I’m not sure which analogy bothered me the most - comparing capital punishment to spanking, or ritalin to cocaine. Or maybe it was the correlation between “reading at 3″ and being spanked.
I’m used to stupid people defending the Pearls, it’s justification for their own troubling parenting skills.
Parent your children, don’t hit them.
Yow!
My daughter is not yet 2, and is both very sweet and very capable of driving me nuts. However, I am trying to teach her “Don’t hit–make nice.” She already knows how, and just needs the occasional reminder.
How do I do this? By NOT HITTING HER! She hits, she gets put down off my lap. She “makes nice,” she gets kisses, hugs, and Mommy’s attention.
I believe in discpline. I don’t believe in spanking, especially with an object.
How would this dim twit know if her kids were unhappy? They’re not allowed to show an emotion other than “gratitude” or they face the hose. Nice robots/household servants you’re raising there, Nikki. Talk about your mindless proletariat…
It’s craziness, wow. I have some awfully nice kids as well, and this is a no hitting house. They definitely aren’t afraid to say what’s on their minds though, and apparently that really freaks some parents out.
And what is this with eating the food??? I can’t imagine a more personal decision than whether you want to eat something or not. Who cares if they eat all their food? What a non-issue.
Or even the going to bed one–we have routines in the evening and they do retreat to their rooms and it’s quiet a predictable time, but nobody is required to sleep if they’re not bothering anybody else.
And what does reading at 3 have to do with spanking? That’s disturbing.
She’s got some crazy rules. love, V
Having recently had a traumatic run-in with a child beater, I have a new perspective on some of this. Nikki and her ilk are probably ill, mentally, whether through cult-like brainwashing, or an abusive upbringing, or hard circumstances. She and all the Pearl followers need psychiatric assistance immediately.
The Pearls, and those who continue to abuse children in this manner, need the hard cold gavel of justice brought down upon them, as they should be jailed for what is so clearly a crime.
Wow, that is incredibly disturbing and creepy. For some reason, I really don’t care for the phrase “cheerfully obedient.” (shudder)
I hope those poor children find a way to get far, far away from her someday. *shudders* I’m raising human beings not robots. I’m actually pretty thrilled my kids are nothing like hers, how frightening.
So spanking leads to articulate kids who can do lots of housework at a young age, and read and write while still toddlers? The envy of the neighborhood parents, she said?
What a piece of work…at what point, when the neighborhood parents supposedly profess their envy, does she share that she spanks them into submission as soon as she pushes them out of the birth canal?
Well, Doc, I see why your only reply was an ‘oy.’
‘Oy vey ist mir!’ is my response.
There is a lot that could be said about this comment.
The fact that spanking and AD/HD treatments are not the same, nor do they accomplish the same ends. And her assumption that spanking is discipline.
I suppose I could tell my version of “my kids were not spanked, and they are fine upstanding citizens”–the Chem Geek Princess is 22 and already employed as chemist for the state department of health. That took discipline to accomplish, not spanking. I never found it necessary to spank either child. They are both reasonably happy people who think for themselves. I’d rather that than obedient without question.
I know that here I am preaching to the choir, but hey, it felt good to say it…
What a frightening woman. The mere fact that she doesn’t understand physical violence disturbs me…
I read the post to my ten year old. She found it quite upsetting. Part of her reaction is as follows:
“These people sound like they love their kids but they really don’t. They’re just using them as toys.”
“Basically, I turned out a fine kid.”
“How can you expect to raise a nice family with that attitude? Most families are based on love. They think this is not abuse? Well, they’re abusive.”
“I am really hating these people.”
Mine do all that. But without any “fear of being beaten.” So I know I’ve actually gotten results that can be depended through the process of instilling self-discipline and maturity not “avoidance therapy.”
Something you can’t know if you’ve used avoidance therapy. That is until there is no chance to rectify the problem and you’ve got an out-of-control teenager/young adult on your hands.
Good lord. By the time I got to the end, I’d forgotten half the crap I was frustrated about at the beginning - there’s just too much.
Obedience around our house is necessary in one situation only - dangerous situations. If I yell “Wall, NOW!”, my daughters move to the barn wall or beside a big fence post in a hurry to avoid whatever mess might be happening (i.e. a goat just noticing that I accidentally left the grain shed door open and trying to get there in a hurry). If I say “FREEZE!”, they freeze to avoid whatever mishap may be waiting. But that goes both ways. My daughter yelled for me to freeze the other day because she noticed her dad had forgotten to shut the horses’ pasture gate and they were coming around the corner at top speed - if I hadn’t been obedient to her directive, my baby and I would have been hurt. So obedience here goes both ways, and is for one situation only - safety.
I don’t raise automatons.
Don’t even get me started on her ADD comments. She obviously knows nothing about ADD/ADHD and the medications used to treat (not cure) it. And should one of her kids happen to have ADD, spanking is the worst for those kids (not to diminish it’s effect on non-ADD kids).